Ali Jafarian

Pursuing the Next Level of Life with John Doherty

Episode Number 001
Duration 63 min

This is the first official episode with my great friend and business partner, John Doherty. We dig into a range of topics that relate to leveling up and striving for a “bigger” life. This conversation includes some of John’s recent experience with “75 HARD” – a popular mental toughness program. We also discuss gaining more freedom, how to find coaches/mentors, embracing our hobbies and much more!

Guest details
John Doherty - Entrepreneur
John Doherty

https://www.johnfdoherty.com/

Links
Transcript

All right, folks. Welcome back. We are. In another episode, this is actually planned to be the first episode with an interview with my homie, J D also known as John Doherty. John is a special guy in my life. We've known each other for about four years now, and we are business partners. We are good friends, amongst many other things, and we spend a lot of time together, which is why I wanted you to be the first official guest interview on my podcast.

In some ways, man, you've inspired me to do this. I also have caught myself, uh, you, you as well, where like we just have conversations and we're like, shit, we should be recording this. So this is our opportunity to at least record something. One of many, probably. And, I am just humbled, man, that you had that you carved out time to do this.

So how would you like to introduce yourself today?

Dude, I am super happy to be here as you know, I guard my time very closely. And usually when people reach out to me about being on a podcast, I'm like get like 30 episodes under your belt and then I'll be on, and when you were like, oh, like, I want you to be the first one.

I was like, huh, that's an honor, but I will definitely, I will definitely do that. So, thanks for having me, dude. I mean, yeah. I guess to introduce myself quickly, John Doherty, founder, and CEO of get getcredo.com and, business partners with Ali. And, I mean, basically what matters about me, I guess career-wise, and been a digital marketer for about 12 years, started a number of companies, used to work in house, worked for a couple of agencies.

So that's like, I'm a marketer by trade. Now I just consider myself an entrepreneur. More importantly, live in Colorado with my wife and my daughter and our dog. And you know, I love love being up in the mountains. I love doing things up in the mountains, different sports up in the mountains.

I'm an adventure sports guy. So mountain biking, skiing, hiking, climbing, high mountains, you name it. I like to do it. Uh, and yeah, it's funny enough. I'm actually happiest when the weather is cold. I love being outdoors when it is really cold outside, people always tell me, or that I, I talked to a lot of people that they're like, yeah, man, I love being at the beach.

Like I could be at the beach here around like, man, I lived at the beach for a while and it was hot and it was humid. Like you can only take somebody's clothes off. I can always put more on. So put me in a cold place, hype in the mountains and I'm super happy. Is that me in a nutshell?

That's awesome.

And does that hold going right into that, that sort of comment does. Preference to the cold weather hold in Colorado. And I'm asking that with some underlying intention to like, well, there's a lot of things to do when it's cold. There's a lot of things to do when it's warm. So do you still feel that way when you're out here?

Is that you like the cold weather's a little bit more.

Yeah, I do. I do. For sure. You know, in Denver, obviously it gets really hot in the summertime. People are always like, oh, it wasn't always cold in Colorado. And I have to teach them that Denver's in the middle of the country and hit up saying we're on, we're on the planes and it gets really hot.

So my favorite season actually is fall like late fall because it's moving from being so hot in the summer. It's still warm and during the days, but then in the evenings, it's getting cool. You gotta throw on a hoodie. That sort of thing. You know, I take walks in the I'm taking walks in the morning right now, usually pretty early.

And I have to throw on a hoodie, you know, when I go out, which wouldn't have happened even a month ago. Yeah, that's my favorite thing, but yeah, I mean, getting outdoors, you know, with my family, with our dog, um, with friends is just a, it's kind of what I live for usually.

Dude, and something about the fall that I've noticed since living out here.

And I'm not sure that it's necessarily specific to Colorado, but these last few years, when the season, when we enter fall, I have just, just embraced and observed the beauty, like the ways that the trees changed, dude. And like, as you know, cause you, you own a mountain house now when you drive out to the mountains and you go through those Aspen groves it's like, whoa, like it's, I feel like I'm just noticing a lot more for whatever reason and the color of that.

Just vibrant, you know?

Yup. Yup. Yeah. I was just thinking today, like we were up there last weekend and. Friday when we got there Friday, not many aspens changing. And when we left, there were whole stands that were already yellow and like, going up today, I know there's just be like all over the valley, you know, where we live.

It's just going to be like this on fire. You know, I'm going to have to avoid Kenosha pass on 2 85. Cause like people are just going to be stopped and clogging it up and running across the street through traffic, you know, people going 65 miles an hour by him, you know, to, to look at the leaves. So, yeah, it's beautiful, man.

I was actually just looking outside. I've got a few like apricots shoes and such on my property here in Denver. And one of them is actually starting to change. The leaves are, there's some yellow up in there, so I'm like, okay, it's coming down, you know, here as well. But, yeah, I don't know. There's, there's something about the, like, as we kind of transition into, you know, into a.

Colder seasons and such. I really liked that transition there and it just makes me really excited for ski season. So, you know, and so, yeah, that's, my jam these days.

I'm the same way, man. I actually, as you talk about this, I think that I look more forward to going from warm to cold than I do from cold to warm.

And so I think that's a cool observation. So let's jump into it. What are you currently pursuing? What's in focus, man.

So, and we we've talked about this, you know, off and on over time, but. Something that's going on in my life right now. Um, and I'll, I'll tell you about the reason why I'm doing it, but I recently, so year and a half ago, very beginning of January, 2020, actually, I was starting to feel kind of stuck and starting to feel kind of stuck in business in life.

That kind of thing. And I heard about this program called seventy-five hard. Um, I started doing it on my own. Honestly, I quit on day three. Um, we were up at that. We were up in the mountains, basically. It's a program. Um, it's honestly a marketing ploy for supplements company. But it's a mental toughness and a physical challenge.

It's more so mental toughness then physical. And basically you have to do things like, you have to drink a gallon of water every day to 45 minute workout today. They have to be at least three hours apart. One of them has to be outdoors, keep to a diet, no alcohol. Some other things. And basically we were up at the cabin that we were renting up in the mountains that winter.

And it was like nine o'clock at night. I had half a gallon left of water left to drink and I hadn't done my outdoor workout for the day. And I was like, I'm calling, I'm having a beer. Um, and I did. I called it and then, you know, honestly, I was like, man, I just, like, I just gave up on that. And so the reason why I wanted to do it of course is cause like I'm trying, I feel like there's another gear.

There's another, like, there's a next level of mindset of ability to push through things, ability to get things done, ability to focus that I haven't been able to realize cause I haven't been willing to put in that work. And credo is part of this coaching group with Dan Martell called SASS academy.

So I've been in that for over two years now and honestly, Every one that I've seen almost every one that I've seen get to the next level in that group, next level in their business and their life has done 75 hard, at least once I just see it like, as in completed it, right. Not just started it, but completed it.

Right. Like my friend Chris went from who, you know, went from. You know, 30 some K a month to six figures a month in the last two years and their business. And he's now been doing like the live hard thing. It's like a full year, basically of 75 Hard which is crazy. And this guy, Brad, that he's also gone from like 30 ish K to, you know, a hundred plus, I mean, I think he's like six X their business in the last 18 months, two years, something like that, same thing.

And I'm like, man, these guys are like, I feel like these guys are laughing at me. Right. And like how, like, I also want to want to be able to, you know, kind of move to that next level. And you know, it's, uh, I think it involves a big mindset shift, so I'm like, all right, let's do it. Dan said he was putting together a group and I'm like, all right, let's do it.

So I'm in a group with like 200 other entrepreneurs that are doing it. And it's hard, right? It's really hard, but it's making me focus. Everything feels busy. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm just pursuing, like, I just feel like there's another level of things. And even though, like, I feel like I've leveled up a lot over the last year and a half, right.

I've been meditating daily now for 500 plus days. I don't even know what it is. It's like 5 30, 5 40, something like that. Number doesn't even matter anymore. It's like, I just do it. It's a, it's a habit of mine. So like I've leveled up my mindset in that way. You know, life has personally leveled up with, you know, we, we bought a house in the mountains and second home in the mountains and you know, a lot of really good things have gone on, but at the same time, I still feel like there's another level there that I'm not yet.

Capitalizing on. And so this is like a way to, you know, a way to get there. So, you know, shocking the system, investing in coaching, being accountable to other people are all things like I'm sick and tired of not being accountable to myself and not kind of doing the things that I know that I need to do in order to take the business to the next level.

And so a big shock to the system, you know, I think, and, and accountability from others, from yourself, from, you know, coaches, et cetera, is going to be the thing. I think that takes me to the next level. So I'm pursuing, you know, w what does it look like to continue to live an even bigger life? You know, I'm not happy with an average life.

I was recording a video the other day as I was on one of my morning walks that I was like, you know, if I wanted to do things on the normal path of life, I would have 28 more years of working. I don't want to be on the normal path of life. I don't want to work till I'm 65. I want to be able to retire 10 years from now, 12 years from now.

Like, by the time I'm 50, I should be able to retire. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to. But in order to do that, You know, I can't live life, you know, I can't live an average life nor do I want to.

Totally awesome. So to wrap that up, you're pursuing a next level of life, a bigger life, which makes a lot of sense.

And one of the things that I'm going to share related to that because of our deep conversations. And I think it's very relevant to this it and what I just heard when you, cause I was going to ask you, what does the next level look like and what you started to describe was freedom. Right? I think that if there's anything you and I have lived and we could share with people who are curious or curious about building small businesses or want to get in it in that game one first.

Yep. And I like using that because of a book you recommended to me, which changed my perspective on a lot of stuff has led to some other reading I've done lately that is starting to really test my mental models, but I will preserve that for when it's time to discuss, but this freedom is playing these games, businesses, just a game at the end of the day.

And like you can, it's so easy to, to create that. And what I heard, which you've seen proof of in SASS academy or one of your social groups, and also it is very demonstrable is that you can play the game of business a certain way, where it unlocks a lot more freedom because otherwise businesses are very time consuming.

I was sharing you that heard my other buddy, Justin mentioned on his podcast that with small businesses and entrepreneurs it's really easy using a treadmill analogy. It's really easy to. Think about like, as having a job you're on a treadmill and then you go and quit your job or start a business.

And a lot of times you can trade that in for a nicer treadmill. It doesn't mean you're running less. You're right. And I'm not going to steal it. Like he, he, uh, went deep on that and we had a different conversation, but I think what, what screams out to me is freedom. Right. And if we, if we sorta like go further down that path, um, why do you want freedom?

You know, because, and I'd say before you answer that, I'm really starting to look at like what I need to do in business as the thing that enables freedom. Hmm. I haven't reached that like, oh, I wake up every day and work on the thing that I was meant to do on this earth. I just don't feel that yet. Maybe there's a part of it that is impactful and helpful.

But like, for me that, you know, a lot of the business functions are responsible for the, it is a big thing is to enable freedom is to enable relationships I have with you, et cetera. So what do you think your, why is for wanting more of that freedom?

Oh man. That's a great question. I don't know that it's one I've really committed a ton of thought to, I will say though, that like to the, just to, to kind of verbally suss it out.

My friend Tom recently, he was working on a book about basically he's, he's calling, being a, an independent, right? So like being a solo consultant and an indie consultant, a solopreneur or whatever the hell you want to call it, basically, what does it mean to do that? And he gets super philosophical about it.

I think you'll actually really enjoy it once it comes out. But a piece he's basically publishing it as a series of epic blog, post 5,000 plus words, and he's going to put together into a book. And the one he came up with recently was talking about how, like, once you go out solo, once you go out on your own, then there is, uh, a very, um, It can be kind of disorienting because it's like, well, you've gone from like working nine to five, having to show up to an office, I'm going to do certain things, but count on certain people.

And it's like, yo, you can just, you can create, you can create the life you want. Right? Like your work, you've all of a sudden untethered yourself from like all these expectations of others as like, well, do I want to do sales calls in the morning? Do I wanna do sales calls in the afternoon? Do I want to blog?

Do I want to do, do a podcast? Do I want to go on a button? I won't be able to go on a bike ride at 2:00 PM. You know, that kind of thing. Um, and it really like lets you gives you the freedom to sit back and really like, think about what you want life to be. And then you can set out to build your business, build your life like that, you know, build your business to, uh, to, to do that.

Like I don't believe in the, you know, I'm going to grind it out for 10 years. So that eventually I can live the life of my dreams. Like why can't I live the life of my dreams right now? You know? So, you know, I, I don't, I don't like being told what to do. And so someone telling me like, you have to grind it out for 10 years.

I'm like F you know, I'm not going to do that. Right. I think I can live. I think I can like continually live more. The life of my dreams is never going to actualize itself just by you work 10 years, then all of a sudden, boom, magically, you have all the things that you want and you have to work at it.

Right. And you have to keep working at it. So I, I think for me, it just comes down to like, I've never wanted to do things, the, like, uh, the, you know, the traditional way. And the way that I just, the way I'm built as a person. And it's, I'm sure it's combination nature and nurture is like, I don't want to do.

Things just because someone else told me to do, uh, to do it. And I want to be able to kind of like live life, like define life on my own terms. So where that, the challenges that, that of course then like you can't get away from there. There are like obligations and there are like expectations of others, but also if you can move your mindset into being like, instead of them being obligations like you and I are both dads, right?

And you, you got two kids. I have one, you could look at that as an obligation. I have to spend time with my kid, right. Or my kids, I have to spend time with my wife or I get to spend time with my kid. I get to pick up my daughter from school, you know, multiple days a week, you know, um, that kind of thing. That, that shift right there.

Like then all of a sudden it's not like, well, you know, being a dad is keeping me from living the life of my dream. No one is completely untethered from everything. Like it's, it's a, it's a false like belief that you can be, right. Like you're never gonna like complete freedom is not a thing. Right. I want more freedom, not complete freedom.

I want as much freedom as I can get. While recognize that there are going to be bounced to that as well. And then those bounds, are they bounds? Are they opportunities, right? Are there things that add value to my life? Like I can't just go and do whatever the heck I want to, because I need to contribute to our, you know, to our family finances and, you know, to, to find out it's the lifestyle that we've chosen.

So I can't just like stop working forever. Right. But you know, every month or every year, I'm buying myself more time that like literally by, you know, saving money and all that, that like right now I could take probably three, five plus years off. And, you know, we wouldn't go broke. Right. We wouldn't to default on our mortgages or anything like that.

Like, it would be fine. So like that right there is, is that to me is like, it's that feeling of freedom that like, I do have the choice, you know, to, to choose to do that if I want to, not for forever, but for long enough. So that, that's kind of how my mindset has evolved on thinking about what, what freedom really is at the same time.

Things like, you know, if there's, if there's a big dump, there's a big snowstorm coming into Breckenridge, right. On a Tuesday. I want to be able to clear my schedule or have my assistant clear my schedule, Sophia I'm going skiing, you know, clear my schedule. Right. And like, leave her to deal with it so I can go up and, you know, get a powder day when there's no one there on a random Tuesday in February.

Right. Like that, that, that, that comes into it as well. But that's more like in the moment stuff, ability to choose that kind of thing, which we all have. We just try to convince ourselves that we don't have that. Like, you don't have to show up to anything on your calendar. There's consequences if you do. Yeah.

There's consequences, right? Exactly. But you still don't have to do it. You just have to be willing to accept the consequences so.

A hundred percent it's about decisions. I think, I think all of that was, was well said that when you say complete freedom, that was interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way because complete freedom is an interesting concept.

It aligns with some of the stuff I've been studying lately around finding your truth. And like when you get pretty deep down that rabbit hole, your truth is, is just can be, or could be what it is. And it, it is, it can be described in ways where you're relieving yourself of all attachments, emotions, et cetera.

It's actually, it sounds like a really depressing, boring place. But the concept is that you do have, well, what might be considered a complete freedom, whether or not that's a great life is arguable, but I think what instantly came to mind and you're talking about this, if I can just sort of relate, is that.

The freedom to make choices is very important to me as well. I've never, ever since understanding like the workforce at a young age, uh, same thing. Like I just didn't like being told what to do and I don't think it's because I lacked respect. Cause I had. I've had some leaders and mentors in my past, which we'll talk about in a second, that I've looked up to and gained a lot of value from, but I don't definitely, definitely, definitely triple definitely.

Cause it's in my top three core values of, um, obtaining freedom and freedom of decision. So to your point, if I were to put my 2 cents in what, like, I think it looks like to me, it is being able to wake up and decide what I want to do. I don't think I'd ever be the type of guy to just wake up and sit in his underwear and play video games.

That's not very interesting to me, you know, so I think that there is a sense of. Well, what we're aligning on here is like being able to choose what you do is pretty important now, to what degree depends on your constraints. Like you said, right? Like what are my constraints and constraints? Aren't negative.

It's they are just things that create boundaries or balance. Like you use. So like family is a constraint. Geography is a constraint. There's all types of constraints. And so the better you get at navigating family, like their strengths. And so the better you get at navigating what your freedom looks like with those constraints.

I think that becomes really liberating, right?

Yeah, exactly.

And on that topic of mentorship, that's something else I wanted to give you props on. So years ago, early on in our relationship, I remember having a conversation at a bar in Denver with you, you know, chopping it up. And you mentioned a business mentor who you eventually introduced me to.

And that was my fourth first business mentor. I had previous, uh, fitness mentors, all types of other mentors, but that was the first time they actually like let someone in to say, and again, relating to the game, like how you playing this business game. And even today I've admired that you keep that mentor.

You've kept a mentor in your pocket. And you've, you've been gracious to share the current one with me, which mentors, as both as we speak and. I think you have a really valuable perspective here, not just from the perspective of leveling up, which is what you're pursuing, but also just in general. Cause I, you know, I was thinking about is like to not be coached by anyone is to indirectly say I've got it all figured out.

Like I just know how to live. And again, that's some people live that way. It's fine. I'm not judging it. It's just the. There are a lot of things in this life, in this world, especially as they relate to society that we can do faster or more efficient if someone just coaches us. Right. So what's your take on coaching in general.

I'm going to let you go wherever you want with this. I just want to give our listeners some context and props cause you kind of put me onto that from the entrepreneurial perspective.

Yes. And I would actually say that I do judge people that are not open to coaching because it makes me wonder about, and it's probably a contrarian and thing to say, like we're not supposed to judge people.

Like no, I think people deserve to be judged. Um, as the judging isn't always negative either. I would just question if they're as wise as they claim to be, because they're not willing to listen to others, right? Like their ego is coming way too into it, into account their, um, you know, no one. E like ego can get you a long ways, but eventually it's going to come back and bite you in the ass.

So I would judge the wisdom of people who are saying that they don't need a coach. I mean, you look at, look at all professional athletes, every single professional athlete has their coaches like assigned to them by the team, right. By the team that they're on. And then also, I mean the top ones also have their own coaches that they pay for themselves.

Right. So, you know, it's just like, if it's good enough for, if it was good enough for Coby. Good enough for Michael Jordan. Right. Good enough for LeBron, James. I don't know why I'm using all baseball metaphors, but like pick the sport that you want. You look at any of them, they all have professional coaches and they all, all, all also have their personal coaches that get them to the next level.

So my take on coaches is, I mean, I've worked with three now. Still actively work with two, basically for me, it's about, is there someone are somewhat or are there someone's in my life that. Have a bigger perspective on business than I do. Right? So specifically talking about business that have a bigger perspective on business than, than I do, who are good at teaching that, and also have my own best interests at heart, right?

People often ask me how well, you know, I taught, I've mentioned coaches many times on Twitter, on my blog or whatever. And people are like, well, how do I find a coach? And I actually distilled it down into a rubric for what I look for. And basically it's do they have experience in business specifically doing the thing that, that I'm trying to do for the kind of business that I am running?

Do they have experience teaching people how to do it? Do they have experience coaching and then the sports one often surprises people. Are they living a life that I respect and that I would want to live. Right. That's usually the what, like, do we have the same values and ethics and that sort of thing. And if someone doesn't, I'm not going to work with them.

If I discover that they don't, that I'm probably not going to continue working with them. Because I believe that, I mean, like if we don't, if we're not starting from there, then, the things that they like advise me to do and the lessons they teach me in the stories they tell me are going to get me to a place that I don't want to end.

So, or have to have a chance of doing that, you know? So th those are really the things that I look for that I look for there. And, and just being able to bounce, like, you know, bounce ideas off of them and say like, oh yeah, I was thinking about this thing. And they're like, but have you thought about this thing?

Right. I mean, anytime we talk with Chris Lema, you know, I'll be like, w we'll kind of talk to various opposites. Like, I think we could do this one, this one, or this one, and all my call with him last week. He's like, but you forgot about this one. Right? I'm like, oh gosh, well, yeah. Okay. Okay. Like there you are.

Right. And even though he's not saying like, this is the right one. Likely thinking about that one, because they think that it is the right one. But it's still up to us. We still have the freedom to say like, actually I think this other one is the right one, but also something I've learned is like, do that at your own peril.

Right. Because they're there to help us, you know, achieve a certain, like achieve a certain goal. And ultimately to like end up being the kind of person that we want to be. Totally.

No dude, that's it. And as you were talking about, I was thinking, I was like, everyone, there's no one on this planet.

It's never been coached. Everyone has been coached, even if it's by your parents, third grade teacher, if it's by a basketball coach or what you pointed out, which is very true. What you pointed out with your rubric, which I think is awesome. Is that a tactic or a hack is to say, well, you need to check the basic boxes to show that you've coached people, otherwise there's risk.

Right. But if I'm chasing something and I want to be coached around a certain discipline, are you living that? I think that's because a lot of people might not check that box and just be like, oh, well he or she is famous. They've got tons of status in whatever status they're comparing. And then they're like, let's just do it.

Whereas that fourth one is huge. Cause I've actually noticed from being coached several times that I rarely lacked confidence in the subject matter or the it's been more of the context for me to your point where I was like, Hmm, does this person feel into things the same way I do? And. Hmm. I think it's a, it goes all the way back to our childhood.

Like, you can remember the best teachers, best coaches. Like they're the ones that you were like, man, I look up to you. Like, you're just like me, but you've just done it more. Or, or you just know the things that I think I want to know, you know? So I think that's awesome. Do you think you'll always have a mentor in business and other parts of your life?

Like you told me you're being coached for some fly fishing coming up here soon. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I've developed this belief in like, learn from others that are smarter than you. It's why I read so much. It's why I invest so much in coaching. I don't get joy as well from figuring things out, completely on my own.

Like I'm not an early adopter, like kind of person, you know, I just finished listening to crossing the chasm. Right. And there's like the super early adopters, like the innovators and those early adopters in your mainstream relate mainstream and on and on. I'm not the first person to try out a new technology or a new service or something like that.

I don't get joy from figuring it out once it's figured out and other people have squashed their bugs, then um, then I'm going to go in and I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to do it. Right. So, you know, I like having mentors. I've had mentors for a really long time. I've always had, you know, when I was growing up and, you know, in the church and in these like kind of Christian organizations, I always had, you know, Bible study leaders, like leaders like that.

When I lived in Switzerland at the the community there, I had a mentor, right. Greg is still one of my mentors. I still, you know, still in touch with him. Because about the, he taught me, pops into my brain at least a couple of times a week, like the kind of the grid through there.

Right. So like, and you know, I'm sure like Dan's gonna be the same way and Lema can be the same way. And even Andy is the same way as well. Like there are things that each of them has taught me, and continues to teach me. So, yeah, I don't see the reason why I wouldn't have mentors, why wouldn't learn from other people.

Like you're literally, when I read a book, I'm like, I am getting someone else's 20 years of hard-fought like insight and like blood, sweat, and tears for $20, it's still down into 200 pages, you know? Like that is amazing. That is insane. Where else can you get that level of knowledge? If I take away five things, you know, like those are five things I would have spent a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears trying to figure out.

So if they can teach me it and I can shortcut that learning. I'm good to go, you know? So, you know, I did it last year with a nutritionist and performance coach and that's, you know, gone on strongly for me. You know, with 75 hard it's part of why I'm doing okay with it now, you know, diet I'm like, I know exactly the diet to do, you know, I know exactly the workouts to do so, like it hasn't really been that challenge.

They just helped me build those frameworks and build that base that I can pull on for later things. So, yeah, we, I guess, I think your point of like, we've all had coaches, right. And so instead of saying like, how do I hire a coach? Think about the good coaches that you've had. Think about what, like, what is important to you in that, and then find similar.

I feel pretty used by rubric because it works for me.

A rubric is awesome. Yup. We would probably keep talking about this and instead I'm going to change this one because there is something we both share. And I see in terms of parenting, as you mentioned before, and also hobbies. The hobbies part is big.

You've bought a mountain house recently. You've been spending a lot of time out there for a second, even John, because you've been coaching me on buying a mountain house. I actually asked myself a while ago when I first started, I was like, damn, do I want a mountain? That's just cause John is a mountain.

I was, I had to do that test. And I had said that I meditate on it for a little bit or at least thought deeply around, like, what do I really want this for? Um, while you influenced me, I don't want it because you wanted it. I had to realize that like, it's a part of freedom for me. It's also, as you know, I value nature a lot and I'm just finding that I'm better.

I just show up better for everyone, including myself when I'm closer to nature. So as we start to talk about these hobbies, I'm really interested to know about how these take priority in your life. Because one of the things I found is that. When I was younger and I see this in my kids now, like curiosity and hobbies took over, it was everything that was the world aside and slowly got introduced to chores, right?

Like, oh, I gotta do my chores. Cause mom and dad said, I'm contributing or I want allowance. So I have freedom to buy shit. Right. And then you get a little bit older and you work a little bit more. I started mowing lawns. Right? So last time for the hobbies. Cause yo I got the gig now is five people mow lawns for, then I got into college and started playing that game, working while studying very little time for hobbies, hobbies became partying, some sports, right?

And then young Ali in his twenties almost kicked hobbies of the curve, just grinding mastering skills, like really trying to build a, uh, entry level, uh, professional network, et cetera. And so now as we tie some of these concepts back together, Yeah, gaining freedom back, being coached, et cetera. I'm starting to be like, yo, I want to do hobbies now.

And these other things professionally, like, I need to your point there obligations. I need to help like nurture them and make sure they stay on track. But I kind of want the other stuff to be in focus, like building my kids a Treehouse or hiking more fourteeners like, so I was just giving you some context.

Cause the word hobbies is important to me, but how do you look at that? Like where do they stack up in your prioritization?

Uh, it's funny. Cause. Our backgrounds are, I don't think we've even talked to him. We never even talked about that. I didn't know. You mowed lawns, like in, you know, in high school.

Like you know, my first job was, at 12 years old shoveling, cleaning horse stalls for a dollar stall. Right. And like, I've always had jobs. Like when I was younger, I always had jobs, multiple jobs. Right. Done all sorts of crazy things. And you know, for a long time it was like, you know, I come from a pretty like type a family.

Like I'm the only person that's not true. I was gonna say, I'm the only person in my family without a master's degree. My younger brother does not have a master's degree, but, he pursued it. I come from a very like high-achieving family. And so it's, it's always been about like, you know, your achievements, your grades, like that sort of thing.

And that was a fine tune. I was a good student in high school. I was pretty lazy. I found it easy. And then, you know, didn't do great. My first semester of college ended up, you know, resuscitating my GPA above a 3.0, then it got to like a 3.1. Cause I basically ACE last two years of college. I enjoyed what I was doing, but, I've always had jobs and yeah, like I'm very similar in that.

Like I let a lot of my hobbies kind of go. When I was younger, I think was very common to do. I think it's okay to do too, because it then kind of established me and set me up to be able to like really enjoy them, you know, later in life. And to actually have that freedom. So, you know, like, skiing is one of my big hobbies.

I lived in Washington DC. Um, like outside of DC, 2008, 2009. I did not ski that winter. It was the first winter in 13 years since I started skiing that I did not ski, and finished up that year. And like, I was kind of a sad person. I gained like Ali, I gained 40 pounds in that year 40 pounds.

I went from 1 47 to like 180 5, gained a lot of weight. Like, didn't feel good about myself. Ended up moving back to Switzerland, like lost all that weight again, like felt great about myself, picked up these hobbies. Yeah, for me now, like I think it's, it's a lot of the, like is the outcoming of like working really hard to get business off the ground to get it doing well.

And then like saying, okay, what do I want out of life? Like, I don't want to work Friday afternoons. Right. Usually because we're driving up to the mountains, you know, to go do things, and so kind of set those guardrails in, and haven't really worked a Friday afternoon, except for like on a four day week, then I'll work at Friday afternoon just to get a full four days.

But on a regular week, haven't worked a Friday afternoon or a couple of years. And what that's done, Ali is interesting because like in the past I would have just filled it up with more work, you know, and still could right we have plenty of like fledgling projects that we're not really working on. Like still could, but I much more prefer like.

Uh, ha, but by having that time and not wanting to fill it with work, because I find that like, my cup is filled when I'm, uh, w w when I'm, yeah. I'll anything enjoy tiring myself. I'll do it in my hobbies. Right. Like, that's great. Plus it gets me out from, in front of my computer. I spend so much time from my computer during the week that like, you know, I'd much rather be out, you know, skiing with my wife or on a walk with my daughter or something like that.

Mountain biking right. On a Saturday morning. But for me also, there's, there's a part to it that like, so I mountain biked a lot when I was in high school college, loved it, had a great time. And then stopped doing it for a really long time. And then 2018. So moved out here in, uh, in a 2016, started 2017 end of summer, 2018.

I was like, I realized that I was like, man, I don't really have like any buddies around, like, where is everybody? Because like plenty of friends during the ski season, but then like, where is everyone? And I started looking at it and looking at it like literally like my friend's Instagram accounts. And I was like, they're doing two things.

They're fly fishing and they're mountain biking. So guess what two of my hobbies are now. Like, I, I grew up fishing as well, not fly fishing, but I grew up fishing as well. I've been fly fishing a couple of times, but now like, dude, when we go up to the mountains, like if it's summertime spring, summer, fall, like I'm not in biking and fly fishing every day that we're up there.

You know, winter I'm skiing. And so like having that extra time, having that margin in my life opened up that creativity for like, but one of the things that I enjoy, right. Or interestingly, what are the things I enjoyed when I was younger that I stopped doing? That's it that's it, which completely changes the conversation and changed the game.

And it's like, it's cool. As I've like rediscovered those things. It's like, I kind of feel like a kid again, in some ways, you know, scaring the hell out of myself, mountain biking like that. I hadn't done that in a really long time. And it guess what? It's still just as fun when I fall, I get hurt more, but it takes me longer to recover, but it is still just as fun.

I still enjoy it just as much. So.

Dude that's it. So what you just said at the end there. Is that, and this is actually a technique that lots of therapists and coaches use. Like they build, they learn a little bit about you and as you're really doing the personal work, like the deep shadow work, they're like, let's talk about five-year-old John or eight year old John, or ten-year-old Ali um, a Testament to what you just said that I've realized.

And I, as I say this, I wonder why I do it more, but like, there's a, there's a few things in my current state of life, that when I do them, I completely lose track of everything else. And one of them, without a doubt is sports. The other is hiking mountains. And what that does for you, to your point as a human, is it actually, it takes you back to what we call kid mode.

Cause as a kid, you don't have your database is so small. You don't have all these emotions and all this mental, garbage and anxiety. You're just like, I'm just curious. And I just want to kind of fulfill my time. And so you lean into hobbies, you lean into interests. And I just, I noticed this so recently where like I was playing tennis and I was like, nothing matters right now.

And I mean, nothing like, I'm not thinking about my family. I'm not thinking about. Nothing. I'm just thinking about getting that ball back over the net. Like that's it, it gives you that focus the same thing with a lot of sports. And for me, I noticed this about mountains too, is like when I'm climbing a mountain, because there's always the goal or at least the target of getting the top and then getting back down, like it I'm so consumed by that and just absorbing nature that like I'm able to get a lot of mental clarity.

And so I think that's a quick tip for anybody. It's like, if you have anxiety or you just need to clear your mind, go do what you do as a kid and probably find it.

Well, there's, there's a couple of things there. I've thought about this topic a lot, because like, I am an anxious person. That's why I started meditating every day.

Like I'm stressed out person. I'm an entrepreneur. Like, you know, I'm a type, a type, a individual. And, I've realized two things. Number one, sometimes. Problems that we're working through. Can't be solved by directly thinking about them. We have to let them percolate. And, one of the best ways to do that for me, is getting out of my normal surroundings.

Right? So like I've been taking these walks daily for the last 10 days here, around my, around my neighborhood. Or up in the mountains of my neighborhood there. And man, just like the clarity and the new thoughts that come to mind is like, it's pretty incredible. And like, I, you know, it's, everyone talks about like, you know, you have realizations in the shower, I have those, but like, I'm also getting them on these walks because I'm out of my note.

I'm not looking at my phone. I'm not on zoom calls, like whatever. And stuff like stuff works its way out. So there's that. And then also it's a lot harder to be anxious and stressed out when you're tired. So like actually tying yourself out physically, like a lot of us as knowledge workers, we talk ourselves out mentally all the time, but our bodies, we're not, we're not taking care of those and we're not tiring those out.

So if you tire both of them out, it's much harder to be an anxious person. Um, just, you know, simply, I mean, some of it's like, you know, give me a Dorfman's going and that kind of thing, but like just the act of being tired, you're not gonna be able to stay up late and like, you know, be stressed out about things.

You're not going to want to eat as much junk and all that, which just perpetuates, you know, as much sugar as much alcohol, which just perpetuates that cycle. You're going to go to sleep cause you're tired. Right. And you're going to get more sleep. You're going to wake up more rested. You're gonna be in there in a better spot.

So I think, I think that's important to remember too well.

That's and that's, that goes back to nature. Like when you look around. There's very, very few animals that wake up mosey on over to chair, sit down for eight hours type or whatever version of whatever a flavor of, doing work would look like. And then kind of check out.

Th they, most animals naturally tire themselves out. And to your point, when we get the best sleep or when we're most well rested and we can show up the best is when we naturally tire ourselves out. And there's a big distinction here. I'm glad you mentioned this because there's physical exertion, which is part of nature.

Like your heart gets pumping, endorphins, all the good stuff. And there's science that backs this. And in this case, your body's a good, tired, and then there's bad tired. Just like your mind is racing a million thoughts a minute. You're anxious, you burn out and what you've experienced, like that's bad, tired.

That's like human created tired, not in nature. Correct.

Exactly, exactly. Yup. And the way I've like come to, to kind of view that as like, when I'm feeling bored, like we're just like, like I hate being idle and you know, I have a two year old and so she can just like tool around and, you know, super stoked to play with blocks and whatever.

And. I can't build another freaking castle. Right. I can't watch the lion king again, like, you know, like let's, let's not do this. And honestly, dude, I find that like at some point she stops doing that. She stops like being able to do that as well and becomes a little terror. Right. Am I, and you know, my daughter, like she's the chillest kid in the world, she's the chillest sweetest kid in the world.

But like she'll become a little terror when she gets bored. And so it was like, Nope, let's go outside. And you know, reg down the piles of dirt that the ground squirrels have dug up on the property or let's go, you know, let's go on a walk, let's go see the waterfall on the property. Like that kind of thing, you know?

And like she's so much happier too, if it's that way for a two year old is definitely that way for adults.

No doubt about it. That's just an instance of learning from our children. My son ever since. Uh, very like me with like having ambition and achievement, even at age five, like, well, what's next, dad?

What are we doing? He'll ask me, what are we eating for dinner tomorrow night? And I'm like, what? Like, why are you worried about what we're eating for dinner tomorrow night? Like he's already like mapping things and going through stuff. And just like you mentioned about Tatum, like he doesn't really want to sit still.

And the times where I fi I can guide him in defining peace is when we get out of our surroundings, we go in the backyard, we take a walk to the park. It's not like, Hey, let's move from the living room to the basement and go play a different game. That manmade, you know what I'm saying? There's something refreshing about that for any age.

Just like, Hey, I just need to like, get out and absorb a new experience in nature. And it will sort of calm my restlessness, you know, totally something else that I want to mention. Because as soon as you brought up, leave your surroundings. You and your family had an awesome trip to Hawaii recently. And dude, when you got back the first time we connected, I felt how just refreshed and regenerated, you were just from talking to you through zoom.

And so I feel like this is a perfect example where you're like, yo, I've been grinding. I've been knocking stuff down. It's time to retreat for a week and you really left your surroundings with that. Right. And so was that, tell us about that. Like how did it feel both going, coming back? Because I think why I'm interested about that.

It wasn't just like you went out to the mountains, like you jumped over to Hawaii, completely new climate, new access to experiences.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was it's the first like truly unplugged true vacation. I would say that we've taken since the COVID pandemic started. Got it. You know, we've, we've taken some trips, we've gone to Alaska, both summers where my wife is from.

But you know, we, we went to Oregon last year for a couple of weeks with the same group of people, but like, it was like kind of work kinda, you know, kind of vacation. We were hanging out, but like we all had some work to do. And this one, it was like, it was a completely new place. Right. I'd never been to Hawaii before state number 47 for me.

So like very few, three left to take off, um, plus a lot of territories. But, you know, it was a completely new place. It's somewhere I had wanted to go. And I was like, I'm completely unplugging from, you know, from work. I'm not doing any work. I didn't do any work. I barely looked at like social media, basically.

I had Instagram to post sunset photos. But like felt present, felt buried there. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I think a that's just, that's just super necessary for us just to like, be able to take that break. And it, it was funny cause I was talking to my therapist before I went and. You know, um, I've been watching, I watched all the like COVID numbers religiously and, you know, read news was reading news way more than I should.

I was kind of addicted to that outrage. Right. And addicted to the numbers and the bad, and was like, this is not healthy. This is not healthy for me. And so she was like, you know what, it's my therapist, said, she was like, it is okay to take a break from that stuff. Cause like you take a break from work.

Just like, honestly, sometimes we need a break from our spouse or kids or whatever it is okay. To take a break from that stuff. And, and it was funny, man. Cause like we got there on Saturday and like Monday I was like, I kind of want to look at the news and I was like, holy hell. I'm like literally addicted.

To the outrage, like new cycle, like that's crazy. And so like purposely didn't, uh, didn't look at it. Right. And like broke that cycle. And I look at it way less now. You know, I go days with re I go days without looking at like the COVID numbers in Colorado and I'm like, oh, what's going on? Um, and kind of trying to adopt Tim Ferriss's view of like, you know, it was a super low news or no news diet.

They're like, if something is important enough, you're going to hear about it. Right. Like, and I no longer want to be the person that's like, Hey, did you see that such and such thing happened? Right. I want people to tell me what happened. So yeah, but, but yeah, just like getting that space, and using that as a chance to kind of like reset a lot of things.

And then it was funny, man. Cause we came back and, got back on like that Sunday and early Sunday morning. And, you know, we had been like eating well and drinking hard and all of that, you know, for a, for a week. And like to my body just felt why reset my brain. My body felt. Like I felt super congested and swollen and uncomfortable.

And then when 75 hard came up just a couple of days later, I'm like, I need that. And so I've been doing it and like, I just, I weighed myself this morning and looked and like I posted like side-by-side photo selfies of myself from 10 days ago and now, and like I've trimmed down my face, looks more trim, I've lost three and a half pounds.

Like I feel great. And so, you know, I, I think like it's also okay to take breaks from things. Alcohol or sugar or whatever. Honestly, I think we should, more often than we do.

Hundred percent. So one of the things you mentioned, which has been on my mind a lot recently is addictions. I recognize I have an addiction to sugar.

I have both currently have an addiction to house hunting because of this app. And search is like, I have been on a tear for weeks now, checking multiple times per day. And one of the things that I starred in my notes is you talked about. Like, I think a lot of people, especially the pandemic have some form of addiction to the news and it's because there's all different types of emotions, flourish, fear, sadness, a lot of things.

It's a very complex time and uncertainty is at the top of that. It's not knowing can drive people mad. And so what's fascinating first, I think it's awesome that you took a break just because of what we said is that it's just good to cycle breaks in and out, but I actually have the opposite of what some people do where they're so connected, but the like they're like the go-to source.

So they always know, and then they can create an addiction from that. Like you said, like just the other day I was checking my dad who was in Germany were on FaceTime and he's like, He's like, yeah. The stuff in Afghanistan is terrible. I'm like what stuff? And I said, genuinely, John, like, I didn't know about Afghanistan he's after my dad told me about it.

And so there was freedom in that, in that I thought about that, et cetera, because it's a very shitty situation for the world, but I'm not, I'm also gonna, gonna pop in here and say, I'm learning how to reconnect more. Because being that taught me, like I'm so disconnected from media and just news that, like I had no idea that a country is collapsing and is being taped.

And that is a big, you know what I'm saying? Balance.

But also, it came up and you did need to know about it. Right. And so. If you don't care about things or like, you know, you don't need to know about a ton of things that are way less important than that, right. It just does not matter to your life, this kind of thing does.

And so, you know, it's important that it comes up and so you can trust that it's going to come up. Cause it did come up. I think about when I lived in Switzerland, 2009, 2010, maybe it's 2008. I don't remember. Basically those times that I was there, I didn't go to movies. I didn't know what movies were coming out like in Hollywood or whatever, like the only movie.

And I'm still like, I still, I bet if you brought up movies from like around that time or if someone did someone that watches more movies, I'd be like, yeah, I've not heard of that. I haven't heard of that and be like, are you kidding me? Have you not heard about that? Well, because I was living in a tiny hippie com you know, a tiny dairy village on the side of the Swiss Alps.

Right? Like it just wasn't my life. The only one that I didn't see that came out then that I know of that like, I wish I had seen sooner was avatar once that like six months ago blew my mind. I was like, I have movies. It was a great movie. Right? Yeah, I, I just, I missed all these things, honestly, like probably wouldn't have really added much to my life.

So I think that's, I think that's okay. You know, and we have to be okay with, I think, turning off and, and just like, I don't know, man, I call it willful willful ignorance. I could spend more time looking at the news, but I don't want to hate on it just because we know what it does to us, for example, right.

Anyways.

No, this is interesting because I've actually had a conversation about this. I think with my wife that. And technology's a huge part in this is that if you back, if you step back to when we were kids like news, just in travel as fast, like, and it was a lot more, what we just talked about is a lot more, like someone told you something like, oh, cool.

Like that's interesting. I didn't know that men you'd like pick up the phone or you had to send a letter, right. To kind of get some stuff. Whereas what technology does on the upside is allows us to evolve so much faster and solve problems in real faces. But news is like a commodity dude. It's like, it's just.

The second someone knows and distributed, boom, you're talking about seconds and worldwide. It can be known, which was never possible. And so why I'm staying on this topic is I do often wonder if it's healthy because you make an argument like, yeah. Do we have more problems today? Are we in a better worst state?

That's highly arguable. But I think that life was simpler back then. It was like, we didn't have therapists for anxiety. We had therapists because we were maybe contemplating divorce or something. Now had trauma therapist is that therapy is actually great. For many people I've even considered having a version of, of a therapist myself, but it just, and I do, I you're one of my therapists, my wife's a therapist like there be for me, is being able to talk through your feelings and not bottle them up.

Right. There's advantages though, of having someone anonymous to someone trained for it. Yeah. A hundred percent. But it's, it's very fascinating to me now. That it's such a need. Right. And it's all mental dude. That's what therapy, no matter how you do it, that's what it's about. It's about mental navigation.

So that's the piece that's interesting to me is like the, the ability for us to spread news, like, is it helpful? Is it harmful? Can we sustain this? Right?

Who are we letting tell us? This thing is worthy of your attention. Right? Like I just saw a tear down the other day yesterday, I think of a, like a trend on Twitter.

Right. And it, like this trend said that there were like 30 some thousand tweets. I'm about pegging the numbers all wrong here, but like proportionally there'll be correct. It was like 30 some thousand tweets about this, about this bot quote unquote viral trend, right. This is trending on Twitter and the person dug into it and basically realized that like, Twitter will show.

Like though attribute a tweet for every retweet of like the original thing. And then so like that instantly like blows it up. Something gets a thousand retweets, all of a sudden there's 1,001 tweets about this topic. Right. It's busy what they say. And then they say like, oh, this is important. And they dug down into it.

And it was basically like, it was like five accounts that made up like 80, some percent of the full of, of like the, the original tweets about this topic, five accounts. That is how easy it is to get something to go viral because they're, they're wanting to get you addicted to it. Right. And so like literally five people care about this freaking thing.

And they're telling us that it's a big event going on in the. Like that is wrong. That is wrong right there. Right. And like, if you don't get careful, I've gotten sucked into this many times. It's like, right. It's like, it's the doom scrolling I actually set up. And actually it's funny that like 0.4 year for us was freedom that we've been talking about for awhile.

Now I subscribed to a Mac app called freedom Tio that literally I'll leave from 8:30 AM to 11, from one to four 30. And from eight till midnight, every day I cannot access social media. I can't access Instagram. I can't Facebook because I need it for work. Um, but like I can't access Twitter. I can't access Instagram.

I can't access any news sites. Like none of that. And my mental health has been so much better because to read them to you, I think I paid like 50 bucks for the year. Like, you know, things like that. Headspace, I paid them 50 bucks for the year. Like, you know, a year, year and a half ago, you know, renewal came up six months ago and I'm like, why would I not renew this?

Like, it was added so much to my, like, you know, like it is so cheap. It's literally $5 a month to have all this mental sanity to have this extra. Like, I mean, what, w what is that like? Uh, I mean, let's say it's eight hours in my day that I can't access these things and be distracted by them. I go and do other things like it's only going to, that's only going to be good, you know, mean good things like medium to long term short term.

It reminds me of, we are, it's very normal and even expected to invest in our, our physical health, but we have to remind ourselves to invest in our mental health, which is what that is. It's like, boom, I've got constraints. Now that helped me, uh, just preserve your. Yup. Exactly. Yup. Yup. Got to go do it if you're not pretty awesome.

So I kicked social media years ago, as you know, like, and it's, it's the good side of that is I don't, but aside from Instagram, cause I, I get joy of using it every couple of days. I just don't. I just got lucky and shaking the desire to know. I don't care what people are doing. There's a consequence of that though, which we've kind of discussed is like I've had to reengage in social groups.

I've had to teach myself to appear more on Facebook, which I kind of despised because I just think they have really bad underlying agenda. And so it's, there's no silver bullet here. I think that everyone has their own. Yup. But also people will say that like they're like, oh, I can never like, I mean like me, I can't block Facebook for like all those hours a day because I have work things to do on Facebook.

That's it. Bye. I use this Chrome extension called newsfeed Eradicator. So I don't have the feed feed is what is, what gets you sucked in there? You know, feed notifications. Like I still get that dopamine hit when I see notifications. But at this point I've controlled it enough that like, I basically only see notifications for things I care about.

So like I've made it work for me. Like I've not let them tell me, like, addict me to it. I have controlled the things that I know addict me to it. So I'm no longer addicted to it. It's, it's simply utility for me now.

That's it, the utility. That's what I explained to some of my, Front Row Dad Rodin homies awhile ago, when we were talking about this it's that.

With devices with social media, there's actually really simple distinction. It's that? Do you control it or does it control you? And it's, you can lie yourself, but it's very obvious. It's like, if, if you use the phone to pick it up to make calls, to do things, to answer emails or in a certain time, then you're using it.

You're saying, I need you to do this, but I think most people have the opposite where the phone uses them most of the time. And it's just, and the easiest way is notifications. That's when I kicked the habit years ago, when I notifications off boom, I was like, this just isn't important more. And then when I removed email from my phone, that's when it, I was like, became a ghost.

Kind of get back in. It's weird, but what is not been said, man, this has been amazing. I knew it would be a lot of, a lot of ground covered. I typically end with like a, what are you selling? Are you selling anything John, that you haven't pitched and the answer could be no, but it could be an idea. It could be something around credo our business.

Is there anything, I think it's more like, what do you want people to leave with this? Any, any final thought around there?

Yeah. I, I think actually the thing I want to leave people with, like, I'm not selling anything for money here. You know, you can go check out, uh, you know, businesses and such, you know, that that's all there.

I think what I want to leave people with here is what I said at the pretty close to the start of, I think a lot of us, I'm going to explain a little bit more. I think a lot of us are. A victim mentality of like, oh, all of these things are just are happening to me. And I don't have a choice. I call complete BS on that.

We all have. We have a plethora of choice. What you have to be willing to do is deal with the consequences of it. Any of us can at anytime we want go and say, I'm not doing that calendar. I'm not doing that meeting. I'm not doing that call. I'm not sending that email, whatever it is, you just have to be willing to deal with the consequences of not doing it.

And I think, and, and the thing is it's not even that, that isn't even like that isn't a license to be irresponsible. I, but what it should do for us, what it did for me at least is help us realize that we're not stuck, that we always have a choice to do something else. And it made me making really hard decisions, right?

Like you don't want to, you don't want to go to that meeting. That with your boss, you gotta be willing to get fired. You know, you gotta be willing to accept that consequence, but you still have the choice to not go to that meeting. So I think if we, uh, that's, that was just a really, it was a realization I made a few years ago.

I had a few years ago that like, kind of unlocked the way I thought about things and thought about like, oh wow. I actually do have a lot more freedom than I thought that I did that. Then I thought that I did. So I, yeah, I think that's just kind of like the overall thought that I wanted to leave, you know, people with people with here.

And I'm going to add to this because I love so much is that I wrote down just sort of around the victim mentality, we all have a choice. You just have to accept the consequences. And one of the, this came up, this has been a, a topic that Gabrielle and I have discussed a few times and I feel like I used to feel like I was insensitive in saying it because like we talk and other people might come into conversation.

Um, humans are messy and you, and you get a lot of like, oh, well, they're going through this or they're going through this and where I've become very, I suppose, insensitive is when I hear people talk about, oh, they can't afford it because I go right back to what you just said. Everyone has a choice in what we do.

And if you put yourself in a situation where you can't afford something, right, that the consequence of a decision you made now, there are some rare exceptions, right? Like if you catch a nasty disease, that's uncurable, this is, these are the cards you're dealt. There's some consequences to that. You may not have as much freedom and like.

You didn't choose that. Right. But yeah, it's no fault. 99% of the things that we create in our lives, you're you're 100%, right. Is that a choice? We get to wake up every day, decide what we're going to do. It's like a value into consequences. And as I, as I say this with you, it makes me realize that like, people who seem to have pretty free lives are good at recognizing this.

They're good at saying, this is the choice. And you mentioned this, this is the choice. These are the potential outcomes, the consequences, the constraints. So let's make a calculated decision here. And I appreciate this. It's so apropos to where I met with this addiction with like finding a mountain houses, like just leveling down and be like, great.

Here's a decision to make, what are the constraints instead of just plowing into and be like, I'm going to do that one just go, which is totally.

Totally. Yeah. And you know, I think the thing about a lot of that too, You know, I, I take some cool vacations and such and people are like, oh, it must be nice to be able to do that.

Like be able to afford to do that. And I'm like a yes it is. But also like you're saying, you can't do that, but like you're making 70 K a year and you're driving an $80,000 pickup truck choices. What the heck? What the heck are you doing? Right. Like get a $20,000 Corolla. Right. And like that thing's paid off and you're not paying, you know, $12,000 a year for a vehicle you're paying $3,000.

Guess what? You just found $9,000. You can go take a vacation, you know, like for a good vacation, like $9,000 is a good vacation for a week. You know, I'm like super comfortable, you know? But like, these are the choices that you made. So yeah. Also asking yourself, like, what are the choices I'm making now that are not letting me make that?

Not letting me say yes to other things that I would maybe like to do more.

That's okay. Ma'am thank you. This has been it. I appreciate you. Which you already know, but I just have to say, cause we're recording a podcast. Thank you for this. I can't wait to share it and that's it. Anything else?

That's it, man.

Thanks for having me. It's a, it's an honor to be your first guest and I'm sure there will be more.

I was going to say until the next one.

That's right.

All right, homie. Yeah.


Ali Jafarian

Ali is a father, husband and serial entrepreneur with a deep drive to create. He writes, records, codes and builds things to inspire the artist in all of us.


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The Pursuit of Something: Episode 001
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